Battlefield V


#301

I just got back from another 2 days on the road.

I’m tired, but there is beer chilling in the fridge and I have a fuck-ton of work still to do tonight.


#302

hopefully it will be similar to dying light with having to hold space to grab the ledge


#303

You’d like to think so, if its just fall of an edge and you auto grab it would be a bit crap.


#304

This is the darkest timeline. felt goatees will be provided until you’ve had time to grow your own.


#305

So you say ‘you have to’, but you don’t? Specifically, in hardcore i change up my gear to be better at killing, in softcore i aim for support and suppression (suppressing fire, distribute meds, incendiary grenades). You can choose either way, and while it might be more rewarding to play one way or the other in either mode, that’s the part i think comes down to, or helps determine, personal preference. I don’t see how that relates to the level of skill though.

Its an FPS and the people you’re talking about supporting need supporting because they are shooting or being shot at. You as king of medics have no job if not pew pew isn’t happening. I thought (obviously incorrectly!) it was fairly clear from context that I was talking about the pew pew people - and, to be fair, the point about needing a better aim to counter the different health system was yours so you at least acknowledge someone is going to be doing some shooting even if it isn’t you :grinning:

But I’ll conceed the point: You could absolutely play the game without shooting any guns at all (though Dice might be a bit miffed they spent all that time on the pew pew). As you probably know Knife servers were a thing when 3rd party servers gave communites more control and even if we say no pew or stabby, the game is built as a shooter so without shooting it would be a really slow game of tag.

Edit: And to answer your point a bit better after rambling. Skill is involved because it absolutely isn’t a game where no one or even most people choose not to shoot. Most do because the game invites them to. I thinkt that is a bit closer to your point, maybe.

Yeah you can absolutely do that in Normal and be rewarded in a similar way to doing it in Harcore and that also counts for the point about aim control. You don’t have to control your aim especially well in Hardcore to get a kill just the same way you don’t have to consider your movement especially carefully in Softcore to stay alive, but the better your aim control is in Normal the better - if you are so inclined - you are at getting kills, the better you are at moving through the map cautiously in Hardcore the less likely you are to die.

I absolutely feel there is skill to how you move around a more dangerous environment. It forces you to better and more creatively use your map knowledge, target recognition and powers of observation together to find ways of avoiding situations which are more difficult to manage when you are more fragile. And I feel it works if you’re talking about solo or squadding - I’d argue it becomes harder still on Hardcore to stay alive and remain mobile as a squad than it is solo.

I suppose that might be a part of my point as well that I haven’t put across well - I’m not just talking about killing people or staying alive. I mean removing people from objectives in Normal and getting around the map unscathed in Hardcore so you can play the objectives and win the game. The absolute most fun part of BF for me is, solo or squadded, getting around entrenched enemies or established ‘fronts’ to go cap objective Z all the way behind the enemy.

Maybe another re-phrasing: I feel the focus on certain skills in hardcore comes at the expense of having fewer skills be relevant?

I asked if you only meant the aim control skill because I wanted to understand what skills you thought existing in Normal that aren’t required for Hardcore because I don’t see what those are aside from the two I bulleted in my previous point (s’why I bulleted them!). I’m not being a pedant, I just can’t see what you mean.

agree to disagree like there’s no more to be discussed, which is a fat turd of a contribution.

That is fair enough (and to be honest I feel like I’ve been told “end of topic” a few times in this and another thread) but when the people having the discussion can’t be civil let alone find common ground to even attempt to understand each others’ point of view, isn’t it better for that conversation to be parked so it doesn’t crap all over the other conversations that are happening with other people who are more capable of communicating with each other? - Like what is happening here and in the Microtransactions thread.

My immediate reaction wasn’t to ‘agree to disagree’, there were a few posts before that, but I suggested that at the point where it seemed like those involved were all pissing in the wind as far as each were concerned.


#306

Yep could do BF1 tomorrow.
Btw all this started from me commenting on pre-alpha version of BFV :smiley:
I find that extremely funny.


#307

Nah, it was bubbling before that then went away a little bit. You just came back and chucked petrol on what was left :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#308

Well I was just coming in with my own take on the game as I’m in the alpha… Now I was thinking that people understood that it is my take on the game. You see I like the HC, specially since I have been playing a lot of PUBG. You have to be very careful and aim control is key so is teamplay also so it is closer to HC mode, I like that. OK BF has respawn but still every death counts down your tickets, people seem to forget that.


#309

Thing is the disagreements, because really thats all this is, isnt to do with BFv but who likes what. Simple as that. Does it matter what its called, not really, does it matter if one person likes that mode and another doesnt, no. Simply put, this is over peoples views on what they like, so no one person is right (i’m right but just saying this) and no one is wrong (unless you dont agree with me, in which case you are very wrong) and the fact that its fucking impossible to please everyone all the time.


#310

Wasn’t going to say anything. But I see you edited your post. So I feel I have to.

I’ve been asked by people to close this thread today. I decided not to, nor voice up and admin it - because I thought that we’re all adults, and although we disagree about various topics which can lead to heated opinion, we can rise above that to draw our own conclusions.

Example: I made a point, which received quite a stern response from Adrock - wasn’t overly thrilled with the ‘ego’ comment tbh - which I could have taken personally - but instead decided to evaluate what I was being told, and knowing that Adrock is a rational human being, decided to check my own opinion against fact and reason. I concluded that while my opinion was solid from my own experience, I had not experience every angle of the argument, so it has enlightened me to check out something I previously hadn’t.

That’s debate. That’s talking. I would imagine other people here have experienced the same.

What hasn’t happened here, is that anyone has called you a cunt. I appreciate your passion towards your games Reno, and I hope that people learn from your diverse experience of games as much as you learn from others. But when people engage with you - It is not personal. Yet I feel you on multiple occasions have taken it that way.

Be assured, I will not tolerate anyone trolling or baiting another member. It has happened before in the past and I have had words with people. You and others probably don’t know that - but stuff happens behind the scenes.

However, retrospectively, I can’t tolerate you jumping down people’s throats like they’ve just attacked you when all they have done is voiced an alternative opinion. Equally, I can’t tolerate people editing posts and swearing like this on the forum.

Reno, we all love you. Many have met you. Many would bend over backwards to help you - whether it be tech stuff or life stuff. Please remember we’re not the enemy and we’re not out to make your time online miserable.

Now I’ve said that, any future threads will be locked if they get out of control and go ‘beyond debate’. This message isn’t just to Reno - It’s to everyone. Be nice to each other guys… It’s fecking gaming.

It’s meant to be fun.


#311

to bring this back to on topic side of things

you can shoot grenades out of the air


#312

Did he, or is it a glitch? I can’t tell, have slowed it down and freeze framed it but still cant tell. If you can, thats nice but by fuck thats a 1 in a million shot


#313

hard to tell be i think it was shot he didn’t hold it long enough for the fuse to give out, a whole new skill for snipers to practice now if thats the case lol


#314

Thats a lot of people going achievement hunting for that!


#315

so glad i gave up on that type of hunt a while ago now just aim for the fun times :stuck_out_tongue:


#316

Yeah yeah

However @VirulentPip is another story! We all know hes a big achievement whore!


#317

in the event not pewpew is happening, i’m not a medic.

I think we’re still going after two different points sorry. So to try and explain from another angle; in hardcore, pewpew is more effective, and i feel that that means a) it requires less skill to pewpew effectively, which i think we’ve covered, and b) it makes other approaches to the game less effective. In my experience, in normal when something doesn’t work, there are more alternative approaches you can try which may be effective than in hardcore where too many alternatives aren’t viable because pewpew can effectively cancel them out. and i don’t so much mean pewpew as ‘shoot the enemy’ vs notpew being ‘don’t shoot at all’, i mean more in the sense of pewpew being straight up aggressive gunplay vs any less TDM tactic (i’m struggling for the words on that, without going terribly binary, and clearly the issue isn’t as simple as two specific opposing elements).

If you tried to balance the aggressive gunplay TDM stuff on one end of an obviously n-dimensional spectrum, and absolute teamwork, or stealth, or ability to use vehicles well or pilot well, or whatever none-run-and-gun approach to the game you might take at the other end of whatever clearly non-linear structure you could fit between them as some kind of scale, i feel there’s a wider variety of skills you can employ more effectively in normal, because you’re closer to the pewpew end when you’re in hardcore, and therefore the skill ceiling is lower because of the ‘tightening’ of focus onto the skills involved in the pewpew approach.

Right, so specifically i’m with you right up to the part in bold because i don’t feel there’s any more skill in moving about in hardcore than normal. As in, what is the actual difference in skill, in terms of your own actions, that is specific to hardcore. the outcome (not dying) is more appreciable in hardcore, but how is that based on skill? Like, if i said “the better you are at moving through the map cautiously the less likely you are to die”, while i figure we’d both agree it’s more useful in hardcore because the preferred outcome is not dying, i believe the reason there’s a difference is only down to the lower health, because the skill of moving around the map cautiously and avoiding getting shot is the same in both modes, and that the reason it’s more effective in hardcore is because you have less health, and not because there’s somehow more skill to doing it because the game functions identically with respect to doing that.

I feel you’re trying to demonstrate to me that there is skill in moving around cautiously in hardcore, as there is value in players playing pewpew for me to support as a medic in normal, but i’d agree with both those points.

Not wanting to labour the point, btu again, I’d just remove the ‘in Hardcore’ from that sentence as i don’t believe there’s more skill in doing it in either mode. There’s greater risk to you due to having lower health, but that’s not ‘skill’ in any way.

Right, so as i think i’ve explained above, it isn’t that those skills aren’t present, it’s that there’s a heavy skew towards certain skills that makes other far less relevant, so in normal where they are relevant, there are more skills someone can employ.

I feel to come to an agreeable conclusion we would need to define what constitutes skill, in what contexts, and come up with some metric for measuring the various skills, and then progress to falling out over how we feel they should be weighted against one another. Now, in the interests of having a damn good conversation I am all for that right up to the falling out part where we have to agree to disagree and abandon the whole thing (i think it could be a cracking discussion), however i don’t feel a text based forum, particularly with multiple conversations to a thread and the obvious delays between responses is best suited for that. We could start another thread, or leave it until we’re all suitably placed to discuss it with/over drinks?

From my perspective, I’ve had a conversation with yourself and Jes about our varying perspectives on a variety of aspects of battlefield, and it’s been an engaging conversation. Some people have challenged my opinion that there is a higher skill ceiling in normal than in hardcore, so i’ve tried to explain why i think that and ask questions that will help me understand what others think, and have had some responses in kind which i appreciate, yours included. Then there have been some responses that have failed to add anything other than stating a personal preference and then trying to draw a line under the issue like there’s a raging argument taking place, but as this is literally a forum i’m comfortable trying to continue the discussion and encourage others to join in in a constructive manner, or contribute anything else.

On that…

So glad you did, that wasn’t intended personally. My response wasn’t intended to be stern either, though i tend to use some brisk language because imagine how long my posts would get if i added flowery language to everything like the first four words of this paragraph. My immediate response was intended to make it clear that i see the focus on getting kills for oneself as being relatively ego driven in comparison with the perspective that as long as your team wins it doesn’t matter how you do, not to cast any aspersions on the act of getting kills for oneself as some kind of derogatory ‘egotystical’ stereotype.

The moment anything appears to be getting personal I’m out, that’s not my business. Yeah if it gets too heated and there’s no resolution to be reached, then park it, but that shouldn’t ever be a reason to limit people’s capacity to interact. I’m really surprised anyone felt the need to ask for a forum thread to be closed; no one here is a child, and no one is anyone’s parent or guardian with the right to give them some kind of time out, so i’m glad that’s not a scenario we’re in.

I struggle to have feelings about achievements. If that’s your thing that’s cool, i assume people get a sense of satisfaction from getting them, or getting them all, or getting particularly difficult to get ones, and that the enjoyment they get from that is worth the time they put into it. In my case, i get them in football manager but the screen you look at them on isn’t sorted by anything i can work out so i can never find what i got or work out what it was for. I get a vague sense of satisfaction in fallout/skyrim when i manage to get all my quests cleared down to just the main story (after it’s gotten all cluttered by me picking up anything going), i bet it’s like that but warmer and fuzzier.

I’m not sure about shooting grenades given the propensity for 'nade spam in battlefield, but if it’s anything like the picking them up and throwing them back in R6, it’s something i’ll know can happen, and by the time we stop playing after a couple of years it’ll be something i think i saw a HUD indicator for a couple of times but can’t be sure.


#318

Yep definitelly shot the nade out of the air. You should be able to trow them back as well, but I have not had the chance to try that. The cook time on some of the nades is really long.


#319

You certainly can. They made a point of it in the reveal trailer when the player shoots a nade out of the air, which was thrown by a team/squad-mate and the blast damaged a low-flying German BF-109.

1 minute 29 seconds in.


#320

nice catch hadn’t notice that before